Eighth house confusions

Not intimacy or sex

Followers of the flawed ABC system of astrology who associate Scorpio with the 8th house and suggest that the 8th house therefore represents intimacy. This is not correct. The 8th house is not naturally associated with Scorpio (or Pluto). The 8th house does not represent intimacy.

Neither does the 8th house represent the mysteries of the creation of life as one astrologer claimed on another Facebook site. While death itself can seem mysterious, to understand the mysteries concerning the creation of life we need to look to the 9th house, the house of higher knowledge. It is here that the Sun, the ancient symbol of divinity, has its joy.

Buying and selling property

The people

The querent (the person asking the question) is represented by the first house and Lord 1 (Lord 1 is an abbreviation for the lord or ruler of the first house).
The opposite house, the seventh house and Lord 7, represents the other party.

The people’s money

The querent’s money or financial worth is shown by the second house and Lord 2. Look at its essential dignities and house location. If for example Lord 2 is Saturn in Capricorn and located in the twelfth house the querent has plenty of money (Saturn is in the sign of its rulership) but has difficulty accessing it because the twelfth house represents matters which are hidden from us or in some sense inaccessible.

The other party’s money is represented by the eighth house and their financial wellbeing is shown by the condition of Lord 8. Lord 8’s condition is shown by its essential dignities, its house placement, and aspects to benefics and malefics.

The property

The property is represented by the fourth house and Lord 4. Its condition is shown by its essential dignities (or debilities).

High or low price? Planet major dignities

The price of the property is described by the tenth house and Lord 10.

To assess whether the price is high or low compared to the condition of the property compare the essential dignities of Lord 10 with those of Lord 4. This comparison will tell you if the price is high or low considering the condition of the property.

For example if Lord 10 is Venus in Libra and Lord 4 is Mars in Taurus then the price is high (Venus is in the sign of its rulership and therefore has strong essential dignity), and the condition of the property is poor (Mars in Taurus is in the sign of its detriment). High price vs poor condition = this is not a ‘good buy’.

If Lord 10 is retrograde the price can come down.

The Deal

A deal between the 2 parties to buy or sell is represented by a meeting of the planets which represent the buyer and seller.

Aspect which indicate a deal include an aspect between Lord 1 and Lord 7, or Lord 7 and the Moon, or an aspect between Lord 7 and the first house cusp or Lord 1 and the seventh house cusp.

Only use the primary aspects: the trine square opposition and sextile, and the conjunction. A weaker indication that a deal might be done would be an aspect between Lord 8 and the first or second house cusp. Inconjunct and semi-sextiles indicate that the people represented by the planets cannot ‘see each other’ and therefore don’t meet and cannot make a deal. The word ‘aspect’ means ‘to see’ or ‘regard’.

There can be other indications of a deal being signed such as the Moon or a fast planet transferring light between Lord 1 and Lord 7 or a heavier planet collecting the light between these 2 planets.

Keep it simple

Essential Dignities
Usually I keep it simple and just use the major essential dignities (rulership and exaltation, peregrine and occasionally triplicity). If you find yourself using the minor dignities you are probably overthinking the question or maybe trying to force a result.

The houses
Identifying the correct house is everything in horary astrology. In real estate questions the 4 angular houses: 1 10 7 and 4 are the most important to consider. No need to look elsewhere in most cases. The 2nd and 8th represent the money of the buyer and seller and are also important.


I have used this system many times with very good results. It is sourced from John Frawley, and before him, Lilly and Bonatti. The application of this system will vary according to circumstances but the underlying principles always stay the same. This is only a brief outline and I intend to provide more detail in future posts.

Bitter Greens

GreensThe headline of the front page article in The Age of February 03 2019 reads: Bitter greens: lawyers called in amid walkouts.

The first paragraph summarises the sad saga: The crisis engulfing the Victorian Greens has deepened, with former Batman candidate Alex Bluthal calling in her lawyers and dozens of members planning to resign in protest at her treatment.  For Greens supporters the article is heavy reading as it details accusations of bullying and a 30% drop in membership in Victoria.

Are these events reflected in the horoscope for the Australian Greens? You bet they are.

The first clue is the Sun applying to a conjunction with Saturn. Saturn is the planet of restrictions, resignations, trouble and defeat. This solar conjunction highlights Saturn’s qualities. Of course this conjunction takes place every year around the start of February for the Australian Greens, and we don’t normally see troubles on this scale.

However when the backdrop of Pluto’s trine to natal tenth house Jupiter from the first house, and first house transiting Saturn applying to conjunct Neptune is taken into account, it becomes clearer why the Sun’s conjunction to Saturn is especially important at this time. Repressive Saturn smothers the high ideals represented by Neptune in the first house, and offers a serious reality check.

Saturn goes retrograde at the end of April, just before it aligns with Jupiter, so perhaps there’s a reprieve.

Also by the end of April Pluto has begun its retrograde phase at 23 degrees of Capricorn, very close to a trine aspect with the Midheaven of the Australian Greens horoscope. Pluto is famous for its transformative qualities, dredging up and exposing dirt that has been hidden, deliberately or otherwise. In a year’s time in Feb 2020 Pluto makes an exact trine to this natal Midheaven, at which point we should see a significant upheaval and transformation of the Greens public image.

This is an interesting horoscope and its resonance with events suggests it is accurately timed. With Uranus close to the ascendant the Australian Greens are never likely to be a boring party. The two benefics, Venus and Jupiter, sitting astride the Midheaven, show great hope, but their lack of essential dignity suggests that these hopes may not be totally fulfilled.

2019 planet tracks

Planet Tracks 2019

2019 planet tracks

This artwork is offered to the astrological community as a free reference for further commentary, and has relevance to different astrological streams, such as mundane (political) astrology, financial astrology, and natal (personal) astrology.

The Planet Tracks artwork reveals a focus on Capricorn in 2019. The activity in Capricorn includes two solar eclipses, one lunar eclipse, Saturn and Pluto both in the mid to late degrees, and the ingress of Jupiter in December.

Jupiter’s ingress in Capricorn sees it move from the sign of its dignity to the sign of its fall, signaling a shift in focus from high principles and ethical considerations, to commerce and material wealth.

Capricorn’s ruler is Saturn in Capricorn. Saturn has associations with isolation and seclusion, the rejected and disenfranchised, boundaries, rules and regulations, the imposition of power and authority, heaviness and depression, debt and poverty, prestige and responsibility.

It is no coincidence that we are witnessing the imposition of trade barriers and more isolationist policies in different parts of the world.

There is a solar eclipse in Capricorn’s opposite sign of Cancer in July. Four of the 5 eclipses in 2019 will have significance for those with personal planets close to the degrees of the eclipses in Capricorn and Cancer, as well as Aries and Libra. These are the signs in ‘hard aspect’ with Capricorn. These degrees are 4, 10, 15 and 24. Those with personal planets close to these degrees in Taurus and Virgo, which are the signs in ‘soft aspect’ to Capricorn, are also likely to see something eclipsed in their lives.

Trump withdraws from Syria

Trump’s withdrawal of US troops from Syria coincides with transiting Saturn opposing his natal Mercury. Saturn is the planet which represents pull-back, as well as associated meanings such as retreat, close-down, and denial.

In a general sense Saturn is associated with bad news, especially when it makes a connection with Mercury, and there’s been no lack of bad news for Trump over the past few weeks. 

The example of Trump’s withdrawal from Syria also demonstrates an important lesson for dealing with approaching transits, which is basically to be pro-active with the energy represented by the planet. 

Saturn transits generally are associated with depressive or not so good events. They are also associated with the consequences of past actions, sometimes called ‘karma’.  While these consequences are unavoidable there is still room to direct Saturn’s energy towards some goal or outcome. 

One of Trump’s stated election promises was to withdraw US personnel from the Middle East, and this is what he is attempting. Btw I am not making any political commentary here. I am just focusing on astrological correlations with what has been reported in the news to make a point about how to deal with transits. 

People often see themselves as the victim of transits, as though transits are something that just happens to them. However the energies of the planets can be directed, or pushed in a certain direction by conscious choice. Not to suggest that we have control over the planets, just that it is often possible to exercise free will, even if only in a limited manner.

New Moon or dark Moon?

Parrot sketchYou will read in some places and on web sites of many who are attempting to monetize their astrology, that today (Dec 7 2018) we have a new Moon. We don’t. There’s nothing new about it. It’s completely dark, no light showing at all. Like to parrot in the famous Monty Python sketch it’s dead. ‘Nothing to see there folks, move on.’ No light means no life.

The dark Moon is called a conjunction or syzygy and its proximity with the Sun makes it impossible to see. It’s combust. It’s only a day later that we witness the first sliver of the new Moon. In the Islamic calendar this first sliver represents the new Moon.

Unfortunately, many calendars and ephemerides need to be re-written to accommodate the astronomical reality of the dark Moon.

During the dark Moon she is with her beloved in the darkness and it’s only his glare that we can see. Only afterwards, one day later, do we see the first blossoming when she is pregnant with his love. The joy of her love grows until she is bursting with his light at the full Moon. Then she becomes increasingly desolate with disappointment as the light of his love fades until the cycle begins anew.

Nothing is more fundamental to astrology than the observation and the visibility of light. A dark Moon is a dark Moon and a new Moon is the first representation of new life and new beginnings.

Insight Lands on Mars

InSight lands on Mars Landing horoscope settings

The horoscope for the landing of InSight, shown on the left, is set for the coordinates the Vandenberg Aries Force Base, the place from which InSight was launched. Astrology, as it is presently practiced in the West is geocentric, and the launch location is the place of its last connection with the Earth. The coordinates for the landing location on Mars would make more sense, but these coordinates are not currently available. However it does not make sense to use the houses or the Part of Fortune which are referenced to the apparent path of the Sun around the earth, and they are not used here.


Notable features include the planet of flight, Mercury, just separating from a square to Mars, and the Venus-Uranus opposition in square to the nodal axis. The Venus-Uranus opposition points to unusual or surprising discoveries.

The Launch horoscope

The second horoscope is for the launch of InSight, which is an acronym for Interior Exploration using Seismic Investigations, Geodesy and Heat Transport. As there is only approximately 8-9 months between the launch from Vandenberg Air Force Base and the landing on Mars there is little change in the positions of the outer planets; except that Jupiter has moved from Scorpio to Sagittarius. Mercury, the planet of flight, is on the ascendant.
It is interesting to compare these horoscopes with the horoscope of the launch and landing of the Curiosity Rover Mars probe, shown below.

Curiosity Rover

Mars Curiosity LaunchThe Curiosity Rover was launched on November 26 2011 as the Mars Scientific Laboratory at 10.02 EST from Cape Canaveral in Florida. The horoscope for this launch is shown on the left.

Notable features include the new Moon in Sagittarius with Mercury in Sagittarius turning retrograde. The Moon, which is always the significator of the action, applies to an exalted Saturn in the 9th house of far away places. Saturn rules the Ascendant and the Ascendant is conjunct the fixed star Vega which is associated with bringing knowledge down to earth.
Mars Curiosity Landing horoscope

In the horoscope for the Curiosity Landing horoscope the Sun aspects Mars.

Sensitive degree area

A striking connection between the launch of the Curiosity rover and the landing of the InSight probe is that the Sun in both cases is 3-4 degrees Sagittarius. This point coincides with the Midheaven for the Wright Brothers first powered flight horoscope which was 5 degrees Sagittarius; and also coincides with the degree of Mars in the horoscope for the first manned mission to the Moon:  3 degrees Sagittarius (source: The Book of World Horoscopes by Nicholas Campion).


The Greens public brawl

Once again the Australian Greens are in the news for all the wrong reasons in a public brawl, after NSW member Justin Field says fellow Greens MP Jenny Leong’s parliamentary speech was an ‘opportunistic’ attempt to force upper house MP Jeremy Buckingham out of the party.

The horoscope for the Australian Greens shows Saturn just separating from a square to the Moon, an aspect which is generally seen as being very negative. Saturn is also trining the Sun in this horoscope. The Sun is the natural representative of leaders, who in this case is the federal leader, Richard Di Natale. In the Guardian newspaper article (see link above) Richard Di Natale is said to have backed the call for Buckingham’s resignation.

Mars will oppose the Sun in late November and we can expect Richard Di Natale to be in fighting mode at that time.

In late December 2018 Saturn will cross the ascendant of the Australian Greens horoscope. This crossing of the ascendant is likely to coincide with a difficult time for the Greens, of unloading old baggage, and redefinition of their public persona. Saturn transits to the ascendant occur approximately every 29 years.

The transiting Sun also crosses the ascendant at the end of December 2018 bringing public attention to the Greens.
One interesting feature of this horoscope is Venus and Jupiter bracketing the Midheaven, the point in the horoscope which represents public image.

Both planets are in Virgo where each is disadvantaged. Jupiter, the planet of the big perspective gets very distracted by small details when in Mercury’s domain and can lose its way. Venus, the planet of pleasure and romantic togetherness, does not operate well in the sign of pure logic and reason. While these planets are often referred to as ‘the two benefics’, they are much less benefical in the Mercury’s sign; with the result that the greens public image can appear tarnished.

Confusions about the eighth house

In recent discussions about relationships and sex on social media the eighth house has often been mentioned, and some people are surprised to hear that it is the fifth house, the house of pleasure and procreation, which rules sex.  Because there are a considerable number of astrologers whose education has not given them the benefit of exposure to texts containing basic principles of astrology, discussion of the eighth house can be tricky. We are now seeing the second or third generation of astrologers who have learnt from teachers immersed in the Theosophist and new age blends of astrology, without access to primary sources. The confusion concerning the eighth house is connected both with

  • The adoption of Pluto as Scorpio’s ruler and
  • The adoption of the ’12 letter Alphabet’ system, by some astrologers.

The adoption of Pluto as Scorpio’s ruler means that Mars is displaced as Scorpio’s ruler. No reason is offered for this displacement other than it’s not fair that Pluto doesn’t have a place in the rulership scheme. It follows the previous examples of awarding the newly discovered planets Uranus and Neptune rulership over Aquarius and Pisces.

In discussions about the subject the displacement of Mars gets glossed over and the ‘it works for me’ justification  is offered. In my experience supporters of this new system show no understanding of the ancient system of planetary rulerships. It’s a case of people not knowing what they don’t know; making friendly and informed discussion difficult. People often take offense if it’s suggested that they need to study more.

In the 12 letter Alphabet, invented by Zipporah Dobyns, the meaning of the houses planets and signs are merged. For example the eighth house, Scorpio, and Pluto are seen to have a similar theme, referred to as an archetype. Pluto’s association with transformation and regeneration and Scorpio’s association with sex are both transferred to the eighth house.

Archetype: Dictionary.com defines an archetype as:
The original pattern or model from which all things of the same kind are copied or on which they are based; a model or first form; prototype.” The problem is that houses signs and planets are not things of the same kind and in fact are very different to each other. In astrological cosmology the zodiac signs belong to the first sphere, the signs belong to the celestial sphere and the planets belong to the mundane (earthly) sphere. Their properties are not interchangeable and are not of the same kind.

The little death: The eighth house is the house of death. While it’s true that some astrologers have associated the eighth house with sex because sexual orgasm is sometimes called ‘the little death’, the purpose of sex is to procreate, to bring life into the world, not death.

The fifth house: Previous to the modern era the eighth house was not associated with sex. This modern confusion is perpetrated by a misunderstanding of the primary functions of the houses. Sex is a fifth house matter. Procreation, pleasure and its consequence: children, belong here. Death and bringing life into the world are opposite things and should not be confused.

Rape and abuse: It is ironic that Pluto’s mythical association with the abduction and rape of Persephone is rarely mentioned in conversations about the eighth house and sexual activity. Some say the eighth house is about intense sex and the fifth house is about light-hearted sex. But the idea that the eighth house has anything to do with sex has no foundation.

Transformation and intimacy: I have often heard it said that death is only one form of transformation and regeneration and somehow this justifies assigning transformation as a core meaning for the eighth house, which in turn validates Scorpio’s and Pluto’s association with the eighth house. It’s a circular argument that obscures the real meaning of the eighth house. Followers of the 12 Letter Alphabet system associate intimacy with the eighth house because of its new association with Pluto.

Core meaning: The tangled web of confusions associated with the interchange of Scorpio Pluto and the eighth house is mind boggling and really does take us a long way from the real meaning of the eighth house.
The core meanings of the eighth house have to do with death in the physical and real sense; fear and loss; the resources of those we engage with, partner’s money and inheritance.
The eighth house is not a particular pleasant place no matter how much we might like to romanticize it or give it a positive spin. The sign on the cusp of the eighth house and the planet which rules that sign are what is relevant in any type of astrological interpretation of the 8th house.

2018 AFL Grand Final

Shown on the left is the horoscope for the West Coast Eagles (WCE) AFL football team, who are playing Collingwood in the 2018 AFL grand final today. WCE’s name and colours were celebrated at it’s official launch in Perth Western Australia October 30 1986. I spoke to a reporter afterwards who verified the opening time when proceedings commenced as 6 pm.

West Coast Eagles horoscope

Note the powerful stellium of planets in Scorpio, and especially the Sun-Pluto conjunction, trined by Jupiter in Pisces. This suggests intensity, focus and power, and in it’s AFL brief history the WCE have been a very successful football team. These 4 planets are ruled and squared by Mars high in the chart in cold clinical and objective Aquarius. At their best the WCE are known for their precision and detailed preparation, evidenced in this horoscope by the Virgo Moon.

Collingwood horoscope

Below is the horoscope for Collingwood, details sourced from wikipedia. There is no recorded time for this horoscope, and therefore houses are not shown, or Part of Fortune, and the Moon is shown for it’s possible 24 hour range. It most likely position is in late Libra, if proceedings were conducted during the day, or in early Scorpio for a post 6 pm beginning.

Planet correspondences with previous premierships

It’s interesting that in 1994 and 2006, when the WCE previously won the premiership flag, Jupiter, the planet of success, was in Scorpio. Again it is in Scorpio now, although at a later degree, at the Mercury Venus midpoint. Jupiter passes through each sign once every 12 years. The WCE also won the premiership in 1992 when Jupiter was in late Virgo, which does not fit this neat pattern. However the Moon in the WCE horoscope is in late Virgo, so there is good correspondence.
Regarding Collingwood’s last premierships, in 1990 and 2010, Jupiter was in early Leo in 1990, trining natal Venus, and in late Pisces in 2010, applying to a conjunction with natal Jupiter. At this 2018 grand final Jupiter is making a trine to natal Jupiter, which is a positive indicator.

Eddie McGuire

It is a very complex task to analyse the various horoscopes for each club, including their respective leaders and leading players. I have only checked the horoscope for Eddie McGuire, President of the Collingwood Football Club. He was born October 29 1964, no known birth time. On this grand final day he has Mars square Mars, and Jupiter opposite Jupiter, and Moon squaring Saturn and Mars. None of these are positive indicators.


I don’t have the hours of time required for a thorough analysis, which is necessary to make an accurate prediction. A cursory look suggests advantages to both sides, with the balance favouring WCE.

Post-Script, written 30 Sep 2018, the day after the 2018 AFL Grand Final

Just in case you missed it, the West Coast Eagles won their 4th premiership flag yesterday, the 4th in their 32 year history. This is a team with 4 planets in Scorpio, including a Sun-Pluto conjunction, responding consistently to Jupiter’s passage through Scorpio every 12 years. Jupiter has long been called the planet of success.
The exception to this Jupiter in Scorpio pattern was 1992 when Jupiter was in Virgo, conjunct natal Moon at 29 Virgo.
Some say astrology doesn’t work. I beg to differ.